tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2973269483459581996.post3350694602785198823..comments2023-06-14T07:03:19.543-05:00Comments on A Round Unvarnish'd Tale: Praise Chorus?Cherylhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04817680463922038375noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2973269483459581996.post-87252763844697077402012-02-06T23:10:18.417-06:002012-02-06T23:10:18.417-06:00Well, I did a search for "Salvation Is Create...Well, I did a search for "Salvation Is Created" on this blog, and came across this gem! The kids sounded great, btw!<br /><br />It's fine to use repetitive song as well as movement in the Divine Service. We see examples in the psalms of the use of repetition and, of course, David danced before the LORD.<br /><br />The question is, does the text and music and movement draw attention to the performers or do they point to Jesus?<br /><br />Does the theme of the praise chorus relate to the readings or psalmody?<br /><br />Is the worship planner trying to elicit an emotional response or is he trying to pull together a cohesive worship experience?<br /><br />Most praise choruses are based on the Psalms, and as such may be weak on theology but probably don't cross the line into bad theology. They need to be propped up with the lectionary readings, other psalmody, hymnody, etc., so that the praise chorus fits seamlessly into the Divine Service.<br /><br />Finally, any movement, be that simple hand gestures or a more elaborate liturgical dance, also needs to flow seamlessly within the liturgy. A great example of larger movement is the Procession of Palms at Bethany! The palms are used both to set the stage for the Triumphant Entry and also act as percussion instruments.<br /><br />http://vimeo.com/10509414IggyAntiochushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04448305182789845259noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2973269483459581996.post-91618349190540933302010-04-12T11:47:07.844-05:002010-04-12T11:47:07.844-05:00Just reread what I wrote last night and saw all th...Just reread what I wrote last night and saw all the typos. I think I should have gone to bed instead of writing that post!<br /><br />Anyway, if EC is right, Susan, and you're asking if who does something determines its acceptability, then I would say to a certain extent, yes. It's the same as when you're doing a research paper. You evaluate your sources. Some are more authoritative than others and so you are more likely to trust the material. Same with churches. If you are looking at a church over a period of time and seeing the big picture and know that the pastors and cantors have their heads screwed on right wrt worship and music and liturgy, then there is a greater level of trust. <br /><br />Having said that, I do not think that at Bethany we do anything in the service, ever, that I would define as a praise chorus or as dance. There may be parallels that can be drawn between the Tanzanian piece or some Taize music and the contemporary praise chorus, but I do not accept that they are the same thing. That's the point of the blog post. The animals that I know as "praise chorus" and "liturgical dance" are not a part of what we do at Bethany.<br /><br />For the curious, if you had attended worship at Bethany yesterday you would have heard choirs singing not only "Nimemwona Bwan" but at various times William Byrd's "Haec Dies," and Rene Clausen's Psalm 100. There was also Divine Service, Setting One, "All the Earth with Joy Is Sounding" (LSB 462), "Song of Moses and Israel" (LSB 925), "'As Surely As I Live,' God Said" (LSB 614), "Good Christian Friends, Rejoice and Sing" (LSB 475), "This Joyful Eastertide" (LSB 482), and "We Walk By Faith, and Not By Sight" (LSB 720).Cherylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04817680463922038375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2973269483459581996.post-28755183903842102932010-04-12T08:33:28.346-05:002010-04-12T08:33:28.346-05:00Susan's "them", I think, refers to &...Susan's "them", I think, refers to "those who have no problems with praise choruses and liturgical dancing" <br /><br />In other words, are we (or am I) talking myself into saying it's ok because it's you and Cantor and Bethany doing it and not the the LINO mega-church wannabe down the street?<br /><br />I don't know, Susan. <br /><br />I do know that while Bethany makes use of much more of *this sort of thing* than you, Susan, would be comfortable with, and slightly more than I am comfortable with, they do not chuck parts of the liturgy to make room for these things. While parts of the liturgy may be set to music that is new to me or Susan, the liturgy is indeed there, and is respected. Congregational singing of solid texts is common at Bethany.<br /><br />So, I don't know. I guess, when judging, it's important to look at the entire picture over time, and not just at individual instances.Elephantschildhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14610471467736150461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2973269483459581996.post-70245949131924190022010-04-11T23:00:15.694-05:002010-04-11T23:00:15.694-05:00Susan, I'm a little unclear about who the &quo...Susan, I'm a little unclear about who the "them" in your last sentence is. Is it the Tanzanians or the Catholics or the praise chorus? Sorry if I'm being dense.<br /><br />Also, just curious if you would consider the slight swaying in the video here to be dancing? If so, I would disagree. The point of the swaying was to help the singers interpret the music. It was not anything that was choreographed or presented as dance.<br /><br />"when it's light on doctrine and repetitive and in a foreign language and with dancing which does not fit the culture"<br /><br />We sang the Kyrie today. It has three out of four of those traits. By the time we sang it, the procession was completed and the pastors and acolytes were in place. But the Kyrie is part of the larger Entrance Rite and which includes quite a bit of choreographed movement that might not seem like dance to us but really is a kind of liturgical dance. It is the best kind of liturgical dance because it is not concerned with self-expression or entertainment but with the expressing of reverence for presence of God among His people. <br /><br />Jenny: our choirs do quite a bit of singing in languages, but the point is not to sing in a foreign language but to sing great texts wedded to great music, and often that adds up toe singing in a foreign language. Most texts are best sung in the language in which they were originally written. Something is almost always lost in translation, either textually or musically. When we do sing in a foreign language, we always print the translation in the bulletin. In fact, we usually do that for English texts as well, just so the congregation can better follow and muse on them (since our choral articulation is not perfect). :-)Cherylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04817680463922038375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2973269483459581996.post-11065616724983361522010-04-11T22:11:41.282-05:002010-04-11T22:11:41.282-05:00EC, but when it's light on doctrine and repeti...EC, but when it's light on doctrine <i>and</i> repetitive <i>and</i> in a foreign language <i>and</i> with dancing which does not fit the culture, then a person does begin to wonder. Is it okay because <i>we</i> are the ones who are doing it, and <i>we</i> are different from <i>them</i>?Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16307213773466556564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2973269483459581996.post-58492625568462206242010-04-11T19:02:31.892-05:002010-04-11T19:02:31.892-05:00*That piece, sung by the children, was hardly the ...*That piece, sung by the children, was hardly the only hymn or song sung at the service.Elephantschildhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14610471467736150461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2973269483459581996.post-53363628596231837522010-04-11T18:58:59.600-05:002010-04-11T18:58:59.600-05:00It's not easy to take the West out of American...It's not easy to take the West out of Americans. :) <br /><br />It's why an aisle full of dancing and processing women seems completely normal in Tanzania and completely bizarre at say, a Catholic conference in the US. (see here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh_nqtp3VrU) <br /><br />I'm fine with limited use of foreign languages in the service (and yes, I include German and Latin). What bothers me though is church choirs who *routinely* use foreign language pieces; in that case, it becomes a "Hey look how great we are" thing. After all, are people Hearing The Word if they're not hearing the word? <br /><br />As far as the praise chorus comparison: in your church, the music isn't being used to emotionally manipulate people. It's not replacing or supplanting sections of the liturgy. That piece, sung by the children, was hardly the only hymn or sung at the service. <br /><br />It's more complicated than just "it's repetitive" (Lamb of God, Pure and Holy, anyone?) or it's "light on doctrine" (Holy, Holy, Holy.)Elephantschildhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14610471467736150461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2973269483459581996.post-87318851777410812642010-04-11T18:16:31.844-05:002010-04-11T18:16:31.844-05:00The arrangement heard here comes from this book:
...The arrangement heard here comes from this book:<br /><br />http://www.singers.com/groups/Michael-Burkhardt/Cherylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04817680463922038375noreply@blogger.com